Quote: "upheld by the early Jewish Christians in the NT."
(le-havdil), A analysis (found here: www.netzarim.co.il (that is the only legitimate Netzarim)) of all extant source documents and archaeology using a rational and logical methodology proves that the historical Ribi Yehosuha ha-Mashiakh (the Messiah) from Nazareth and his talmidim (apprentice-students), called the Netzarim, taught and lived Torah all of their lives; and that Netzarim and Christianity were always antithetical.
Judaism and Christianity have always been two antithetical religions, and thus the term “Jewish Christians” is an oxymoron.
The mitzwot (directives or military-style orders) in Torah (claimed in Tan’’kh (the Jewish Bible) to be the instructions of the Creator), the core of the Judaism, are an indivisible whole. Rejecting any one constitutes rejecting of the whole… and the Church rejected many mitzwot, for example rejecting to observe the Shabat on the seventh day in the Jewish week. Examples are endless. Dt. 13.1-6 explicitly precludes the Christian NT.
Ribi Yehoshuas talmidim Netzarim still observes Torah non-selectively to their utmost today and the research in the above website implies that becoming one of Ribi Yehoshuas Netzarim-followers is the only way to follow him.
Anders: by "early Jewish Christians in the NT" I am referring to the early Christians mentioned in the New Testament, who were Jews and who had subsequently believed in Jesus as the Son of God.
Perhaps you can write more on the explanation of Phil 2:6 using NIV, ESV or NASB ? And perhaps Col 1:16 on who and how was the Son involved in creation ? This will be interesting :)
Kean: The issue of Phil 2:6 revolves around the way the original Greek "en morphe theou" (in the form of)is translated. In the NIV, this word "morphe" is translated "nature", apparently taking the sense used in classical greek around the time of 500B.C.
In contrast, many other english versions, including the ESV and the NASB translates this word using its literal meaning as "form", leaving it to the reader to decide on the sense of this word.
What appears to be left out by many is that the NT was written in koine greek rather than classical greek. Some writers have argued that in koine greek, "morphe" carries the sense of a "position" (rank or status) held by a person in contrast to "nature" as used in classical greek.
To me this koine greek usage makes sense because in the very next verse, our Lord Jesus takes the "morphe" of a bond-slave, meaning a change in status or position rather than his nature.
I've found the exegesis on Phil 2:6, by W.M. Wachtel, http://www.christianmonotheism.com/media/text/TheFormOfGod.pdf both sound and reasonable,and would recommend it for your evaluation.
Greetings Adam, in the Name of our Lord Messiah Jesus! Thank you for your encouragement and for the links. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ forever and ever, Amen.
Kean: Phil 2: 6 In addition to my earlier reply above, a more detailed exegesis, based on the meaning of "morphe" as external form, or bodily shape, as in statues or icons, (as defined in Greek-English lexicons), is given by Eric H.H. Chang in his book "The Only True God", (http://www.theonlytruegod.org)in Chapter 3, entitled "Re-evaluating the Understanding of Man" (p. 223), where he argues that, as the image of the God, the character of invisible God (Col. 1: 15) is made visible in Christ.
Colossians 1: 16 The explanation for this verse again revolves around verse 15, where Christ is described as the "image of God", a truth that's explained earlier under Philippians 2: 6 above, and around the issue of translating "en auto" as "in him" or "through him" rather than "by him". It must be noted that throughout Paul's writings, "in Christ" or "throught Christ" is always used in the context of God's plan of salvation or redemption of the world.
In this letter to the Colossians, particularly in Col. 1: 12-22, God's creation and redemption of the world is to be considered together and not separately e.g. verses 19, 20 tells us that the fullness of God dwells in Christ and God reconciles, through Christ, all things in heaven and on earth to Himself. Furthermore, Paul has also written in Eph 1:4 that God has chosen us "in Christ" before the foundation of the world! Yes, even before creation, God's plan of redemption "in Christ" was already in place. It is in this sense, therefore, that "God in Christ" created all things in heaven and on earth.
As such, to say that all things were created "by Christ" (as though he were he maker, or some sort of assisting medium to God) is not consistent with the apostle Paul's thinking. After all, let us not forget the truth of God our Creator written in scripture, Isaiah 44:24 telling us that YHWH alone stretched out the heavens, and that by Himself spread out the earth!
A full treatment is given by Eric H.H. Chang, in his book The Only True God, (http://www.theonlytruegod.org) Chapter 4, The Trinitarian Deification of Christ.
Quote: "upheld by the early Jewish Christians in the NT."
ReplyDelete(le-havdil), A analysis (found here: www.netzarim.co.il (that is the only legitimate Netzarim)) of all extant source documents and archaeology using a rational and logical methodology proves that the historical Ribi Yehosuha ha-Mashiakh (the Messiah) from Nazareth and his talmidim (apprentice-students), called the Netzarim, taught and lived Torah all of their lives; and that Netzarim and Christianity were always antithetical.
Judaism and Christianity have always been two antithetical religions, and thus the term “Jewish Christians” is an oxymoron.
The mitzwot (directives or military-style orders) in Torah (claimed in Tan’’kh (the Jewish Bible) to be the instructions of the Creator), the core of the Judaism, are an indivisible whole. Rejecting any one constitutes rejecting of the whole… and the Church rejected many mitzwot, for example rejecting to observe the Shabat on the seventh day in the Jewish week. Examples are endless. Dt. 13.1-6 explicitly precludes the Christian NT.
Ribi Yehoshuas talmidim Netzarim still observes Torah non-selectively to their utmost today and the research in the above website implies that becoming one of Ribi Yehoshuas Netzarim-followers is the only way to follow him.
Anders: by "early Jewish Christians in the NT" I am referring to the early Christians mentioned in the New Testament, who were Jews and who had subsequently believed in Jesus as the Son of God.
ReplyDeletePerhaps you can write more on the explanation of Phil 2:6 using NIV, ESV or NASB ? And perhaps Col 1:16 on who and how was the Son involved in creation ? This will be interesting :)
ReplyDeleteKean
Kean: The issue of Phil 2:6 revolves around the way the original Greek "en morphe theou" (in the form of)is translated. In the NIV, this word "morphe" is translated "nature", apparently taking the sense used in classical greek around the time of 500B.C.
ReplyDeleteIn contrast, many other english versions, including the ESV and the NASB translates this word using its literal meaning as "form", leaving it to the reader to decide on the sense of this word.
What appears to be left out by many is that the NT was written in koine greek rather than classical greek. Some writers have argued that in koine greek, "morphe" carries the sense of a "position" (rank or status) held by a person in contrast to "nature" as used in classical greek.
To me this koine greek usage makes sense because in the very next verse, our Lord Jesus takes the "morphe" of a bond-slave, meaning a change in status or position rather than his nature.
I've found the exegesis on Phil 2:6, by W.M. Wachtel,
http://www.christianmonotheism.com/media/text/TheFormOfGod.pdf
both sound and reasonable,and would recommend it for your evaluation.
Greetings PengYou
ReplyDeleteTruly wonderful testimony.
May GOD continue to bless you as you testify the truth of the only true GOD &
his wondrous, glorified human son,
our Lord Jesus the Messiah.
No doubt you may be aware of the following sites:
here are some links you may find interesting:
www.christianmonotheism.com
http://www.focusonthekingdom.org/
http://www.kingdomready.org/
http://www.21stcr.org/index.html
www.jesusishuman.com
Yours In Messiah
Adam Pastor
Greetings Adam, in the Name of our Lord Messiah Jesus! Thank you for your encouragement and for the links. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ forever and ever, Amen.
ReplyDeleteKean:
ReplyDeletePhil 2: 6
In addition to my earlier reply above, a more detailed exegesis, based on the meaning of "morphe" as external form, or bodily shape, as in statues or icons, (as defined in Greek-English lexicons), is given by Eric H.H. Chang in his book "The Only True God", (http://www.theonlytruegod.org)in Chapter 3, entitled "Re-evaluating the Understanding of Man" (p. 223), where he argues that, as the image of the God, the character of invisible God (Col. 1: 15) is made visible in Christ.
Colossians 1: 16
The explanation for this verse again revolves around verse 15, where Christ is described as the "image of God", a truth that's explained earlier under Philippians 2: 6 above, and around the issue of translating "en auto" as "in him" or "through him" rather than "by him". It must be noted that throughout Paul's writings, "in Christ" or "throught Christ" is always used in the context of God's plan of salvation or redemption of the world.
In this letter to the Colossians, particularly in Col. 1: 12-22, God's creation and redemption of the world is to be considered together and not separately e.g. verses 19, 20 tells us that the fullness of God dwells in Christ and God reconciles, through Christ, all things in heaven and on earth to Himself. Furthermore, Paul has also written in Eph 1:4 that God has chosen us "in Christ" before the foundation of the world! Yes, even before creation, God's plan of redemption "in Christ" was already in place. It is in this sense, therefore, that "God in Christ" created all things in heaven and on earth.
As such, to say that all things were created "by Christ" (as though he were he maker, or some sort of assisting medium to God) is not consistent with the apostle Paul's thinking. After all, let us not forget the truth of God our Creator written in scripture, Isaiah 44:24 telling us that YHWH alone stretched out the heavens, and that by Himself spread out the earth!
A full treatment is given by Eric H.H. Chang, in his book The Only True God, (http://www.theonlytruegod.org) Chapter 4, The Trinitarian Deification of Christ.